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devildad
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Download Warning Message On Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 8

Hi,

On attempting to download it I received a message on my PC ' Trajectoware10.msi appears malicious'

I notice your other form members don't appear to have a problem downloading the software. Is it safe for me to ignore the message?

Thanks
Paul
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dtutelman
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Download Warning Message On Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 105
Location: New Jersey, USA

Paul,
To my knowledge, our site hasn't been hacked and had our software replaced by malware. Unless that has happened within the past few days, the program is safe.

You haven't given us much to go on. Here are a few questions about what's going on:

(1) What browser are you using?

(2) What protection program[s] are running on your PC?

(3) Do you know where the message is coming from? It should be one of the answers to #1 or #2 above.

(4) Have you downloaded other software (specifically .msi files) and NOT seen that message?

All this assumes you got the message on attempting to download, as opposed to an attempt to install what you downloaded.

DaveT
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fschmidberger
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Download Warning Message On Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Ravensburg, Germany

Hi,

I've just downloaded the file and did an installation on Win7, without any issue.

However, as we have not signed the msi file with a certificate you may get a warning message stating just that.

Cheers
Frank
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dtutelman
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Download Warning Message On Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 105
Location: New Jersey, USA

fschmidberger wrote:
...as we have not signed the msi file with a certificate you may get a warning message stating just that.

I would still be interested in which software gives this problem on download. I understand seeing the message when you try to run it, but Paul said he saw the message when he downloaded the MSI file.
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devildad
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 8

Thanks Dave.

Yes you are correct, the error message came up when I attempted to download the programme.

I am using Google with McAfee Anti-Virus. There was no indication where the message was coming from.

I decided to ignore the message and had no problem with the download.

The system I have downloaded is version 1.0, is that the latest version? I noticed that the club path angle, face angle, and target relationship seems to be incorrect. I entered settings that would give me a draw but wasn't able to reproduce a draw. I presume then that you must be using the old ball flight laws?

Great software though!! I'm amazed you don't charge for it.

Many thanks
Paul
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dtutelman
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Location: New Jersey, USA

devildad wrote:
The system I have downloaded is version 1.0, is that the latest version?

Yes.

Quote:
I noticed that the club path angle, face angle, and target relationship seems to be incorrect. I entered settings that would give me a draw but wasn't able to reproduce a draw. I presume then that you must be using the old ball flight laws?

I don't know what you are talking about. The software works per the ball flight laws in my articles at http://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/ballflight.php and http://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/slice.php. In fact, the articles were prepared using TrajectoWare Drive.

Consider reading the Help information associated with the impact parameters. You are probably misinterpreting what they mean. (I'm an engineer, too. Our rule is, "When all else fails, read the manual.")

Cheers!
DaveT
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devildad
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Thanks for the links to your articles. They are the best ones I've come across in explaining the behaviour of the ball in flight.

I'm not an engineer, my motive is to better understand the physics in order to improve my understanding of ball flight for a range of shot scenarios.

I did read the manual, unfortunately it doesn't help to answer my query.

If we use an example of the data parameters for a fade you mention in your article.

Face Angle X = 10 yards (say 2 deg) - I know that 2 deg may not be precisely correct but, it's the ratios I'm interested for this example.
Club path Y = 15 yards (say 3 deg)
Club path to target XY = 25 yards (say 5 deg)

I started with a straight shot, then input the above into TrajectoWare Drive. The new shot direction I get is Pull-hook starting 17.5 Left, whereas I was expecting a Fade to be the resultant shot (as predicted in your article). Am I misinterpreting the ratios? If the input parameters I used were incorrect, what input parameters would be likely produce a fade in TrajectoWare.

If you could point out where I've gone wrong that would be great.

Cheers
Paul
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dtutelman
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Posts: 105
Location: New Jersey, USA

Find the Help page about Impact Parameters and read it. It contains everything you need to know about this. But here are a few hints about things you seem to be having trouble with.

  • Positive is left, negative is right. For all three angles.
  • You can't set all three angles arbitrarily. Once you have set two of the angles, the third is determined -- and the software WILL determine it.

Do your viewing on the "Top View" screen.

Hope this helps.
DaveT
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devildad
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Thanks for the quick reply Dave,

I have followed your instructions strictly to the letter and entered the input parameters as per your help page. As I wanted to simulate a fade, with both clubhead path and clubface angle to the left of the target line, I used positive numbers.

First I took the yardage distances you have used in your fade example in your article and converted them to degrees.

Clubhead path x+y = 25 yards (5 degrees)
Clubface angle x = 10 yards (2 degrees)
Clubface angle to target Y = 15 yards (3 degrees)

I entered the first two parameters into your programme which the programme added together to produce a Clubface angle to target of 7 degrees.

The point I'm trying to make, obviously not very clearly thus far, is that in your fade article Y = (x+y) - x or Y= 5 deg - 2 deg = 3 deg., not the 7 deg as produced by your programme.

Unless I have missed something, I can only presume that either your programme's calculation is incorrect or the example given in your article is incorrect.

I suspect it is the former as your programme produced a pull hook as a resultant shot shape, when a fade was being simulated.

Trust you will be able to check it out for me. Appreciate any help on this.

Cheers
Paul
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dtutelman
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Location: New Jersey, USA

Paul,
You are missing a few fundamentals here. I'll mention what they are, and leave you to your devices because I don't have time for more today.

(1) You can't choose BOTH X and Y. You choose Y and the distance of the shot, and X is determined. See the article for how X is determined.

(2) You have to visualize or even look at a picture to know what is X and what is Y, vis-a-vis the TrajectoWare parameters. It's not like the three TrajectoWare Drive parameters are X, Y, and X+Y. Simply not!

(3) While you're visualizing, be sure to visualize which are positive (left) and which are negative (right). If you get these wrong, the shape will be totally wrong.

Good luck!
DaveT
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devildad
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Posts: 8

Thanks for taking the time Dave,

I see where you are coming from with 2). It's a pity, it would have been nice to run some calcs just to check out a few ratios.

Appreciate your patience in answering my questions. It is not always easy for a laymen like me to understand let alone communicate some of these complex concepts.

3) I totally agree, very important to avoid the big hooks and slices.

By the way, this hasn't all been in vain. I have used your programme to simulate the effect of various wind conditions on the ball for a set of impact criteria using a driver. This exercise has been useful, so congrats on an excellent resource. With that I will sign off and thanks again for all your advice, and especially for your excellent articles. I'll will study them carefully.

All the best
Paul
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dtutelman
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Re: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Paul,
Found a few minutes to work the problem. We're going to work the example from http://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/slice.php. I'm looking at the diagram and table in Summary of Results.

SOLVE IT USING THE FUNDAMENTALS

(1) Define the problem. You can't avoid this! You must do it explicitly. That is a step you never went through with the question in your posts.

- Y is the distance between where we want the ball to start and where we want it to land. You are proposing that Y be 15 yards. We'll use that number.

- We need a distance for the drive, something you missed in each of your posts. Let's try 250yd.

(2) Compute the other inputs:

- At 250yd, Y/X is 2.3 according to the table in the article. YOU NEED TO KNOW THAT to do anything practical with it.

- So X = Y/2.3 = 15yd/2.3 = 6.5yd

- So the angle between the clubface and the path is given by
sin(angle) = 6.5yd/250yd for an angle of 1.5 degrees.

(3) Set up the TrajectoWare inputs. This involves looking at a diagram, understanding it, and deciding what dimensions on the diagram correspond to what inputs in TrajectoWare Drive:

- Play with clubhead speed and loft, to get a distance of 250yd. I chose 106mph and 11* loft. This gave 251.2 yards. Close enough.

- The face points at the "target", so the face angle to target is zero.

- The path is 1.5 degrees left of the target, so set the path at +1.5* (plus is left).

Now look at the output. The distance is 249.9yd and the trajectory is a pull-slice of 14.9yd -- close enough what we wanted. Note that 14.9 is negative, which is to the right -- confirming it's a slice.

AN EASIER WAY TO SOLVE IT

(1) Define the problem. You still need to do this. If you don't do it, then you don't know what you are doing -- by definition! We will use the same problem definition as before.

(2) Use the scroll wheel to solve the problem in TrajectoWare Drive:

- Set up TrajectoWare Drive for a 250yd drive. We'll use the same 106mph and 11* loft.

- As before, the target line is the initial direction, so the face angle to target is zero.

- Click the cursor into "Clubhead Path". Run the scroll wheel, looking at the result. Stop when the side deviation is -15yd (that's 15yd right).

We get the answer we want (well, 14.9yd anyway) when the clubhead path gets to +1.5* which is exactly what should happen.

Play with it! That's the best way to "get it".

DaveT
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devildad
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Brilliant, Using your easier way I've solved it. Many thanks Dave.

Having first set the parameters for a straight shot, I used clubhead path and clubface angle to target as my variables and used the scroll wheel on each of them in turn to see the resulting shape to the shot. This is exactly what I'd been looking for.

Also interesting to see the changes in the shape when I adjust each of the input parameters, not just the clubhead path and clubface. I haven't yet been able to exactly reproduce a fade or a draw on the screen. However, I can get the ball to finish within less than a yard deviation of the target line which is good enough for what I need.

I didn't mention the parameters I'd used for the previous tests, other to say I used a straight shot. I actually used a clubhead speed of 112 mph Dynamic loft 10.5 an 0 attack angle.

Wondering if I will be able to do these same tests for using the parameters for say a mid-iron. I recognise though that these calcs might not be accurate for short irons. What is the lowest clubhead speed would you recommend I use on your programme?

I plan to use my son's real time data for each club to come up with his X+Y to Y 'ratios' for a draw or a fade. I expect they won't deviate much from 1.6 to 1 for a range of clubhead speeds will be interesting finding out.

Thanks again Dave for your help. It's taken a while but you got me there! Much appreciated. I owe you a few beers if I ever get anywhere near your neck of the woods.
Smile
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dtutelman
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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devildad wrote:
Brilliant, Using your easier way I've solved it...
Having first set the parameters for a straight shot, I used clubhead path and clubface angle to target as my variables and used the scroll wheel on each of them in turn to see the resulting shape to the shot. This is exactly what I'd been looking for.

You're welcome. Glad you finally got it. That is exactly how to use the scroll wheel.

Quote:
Also interesting to see the changes in the shape when I adjust each of the input parameters, not just the clubhead path and clubface.

It was Frank's idea to do that, and I think it's wonderful. I use it all the time that way.

Quote:
I haven't yet been able to exactly reproduce a fade or a draw on the screen. However, I can get the ball to finish within less than a yard deviation of the target line which is good enough for what I need.
When you are capable of hitting a fade or draw within a yard, on the golf course, then you can complain about it. Smile

Quote:
Wondering if I will be able to do these same tests for using the parameters for say a mid-iron. I recognise though that these calcs might not be accurate for short irons. What is the lowest clubhead speed would you recommend I use on your programme?
The problem isn't clubhead speed; it's spin. You have to keep the total spin below 4000RPM. I have tried it with short irons and gotten completely ridiculous results. Long and mid-irons won't necessarily look ridiculous at face value, but they could also be way off.

Quote:
I plan to use my son's real time data for each club to come up with his X+Y to Y 'ratios' for a draw or a fade. I expect they won't deviate much from 1.6 to 1 for a range of clubhead speeds will be interesting finding out.
I suspect you do not mean X+Y to Y. The ratio of interest is Y to X. That is the ratio in the article, and it is the most useful ratio on the course.

Quote:
Thanks again Dave for your help... I owe you a few beers if I ever get anywhere near your neck of the woods.
Smile
My neck of the woods is the Jersey Shore. And I generally stop after one beer.

Glad to be of help.

Good luck!
DaveT
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devildad
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Re Download Warning Message on Windows 7 PC Reply with quote

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Thanks for the spin rate data Dave.

Quote:
I suspect you do not mean X+Y to Y. The ratio of interest is Y to X. That is the ratio in the article, and it is the most useful ratio on the course.


Actually I did, I am using the top and bottom of your three input parameters, clubhead path and face angle to target as inputs for my ratio. Gave you a bum steer in my last post, my ratio is 1.25 not the 1.6 I mentioned (that of course was the result of your Y to X ratio).

I can take my ratio onto the golf course. Clubhead path is right for me as I can correlate stance alignment and swing path direction with this.

Quote:
When you are capable of hitting a fade or draw within a yard, on the golf course, then you can complain about it.


I'm now far better at producing fades on TrajectoWare than I am on the golf course. No contest! Smile

Quote:
My neck of the woods is the Jersey Shore. And I generally stop after one beer.


A few miles west of my home town here in Scotland! Someday I might get there if ever my son plays an event close by on the PGA Tour. Hopefully I'll still be around then!!

All the best to you
Paul
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